High Quality Seed Production

c-rayc-ray germinatingPosts: 14,823
edited June 2013 in Gene Frequencies
a thread with some thoughts and theories on how to grow the highest quality seed possible..

ideally all breeding plants should be in prime health, grown with whatever method achieves the highest plant sap brix rating.. brix level = energy level and so we want to drive as much energy as possible into seed production.. the more energy we drive into seed production the more mineral will be gathered into the seed and the denser and heavier the seed will be.. the higher the weight per 1000 seed the better, meaning more mineral in the seed.. the more mineral in the seed the greater the chance the germ will have everything it needs to begin life and grow into a well formed, vigourous plant, free of mutation and susceptibilities..

all breeding plants shall be grown under the best light possible, summer sun being the first choice, followed by hid supplementation of natural light, then pure hid with mixed bulbs... breeding under cfls, fluoros and leds is something that should only be considered as a last resort

the males should be given the same reverance as the females, and grown in their own spot, under equally intense lighting conditions

momma plants should be pollinated early enough so that they are able to finish to completion under optimal conditions.. generally speaking the greater the amount of pistils pollinated on a plant the lower the quality of each seed, so it is good for a momma plant to get pollinated sooner rather than later.. 2-3 weeks into flowering is usually just about right for most plants, while some sativa types can be pollinated multiple times as they will put out multiple waves of pistils..

the momma plant should be kept in reasonably warm conditions during pollination and for a couple weeks afterwards, as colder conditions can lead to stunting in the early seed production process..

..more to come..
Post edited by c-ray on
"One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

Comments

  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
    edited December 2012
    [vv]53820632[/vv]
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
    edited December 2012
    some consideration should be given to following the theories of localized seed selection ([URL="www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=327"]ECIWO / Embryo Containing the Information of the Whole Organism)

    imho we want to pollinate only the vibrant and vital top colas of the mommas and leave the bottoms for consumption.. further to that the males can be pruned of all their lower flowers and pollen only collected/distributed from the uppermost flowers.. the more serious seed maker might even want to strip away all the lower branches and any low caliber branch and let the momma direct all of her energy into only the thickest branches..
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
    edited December 2012
    this looks good:

    The Organic Seed Grower
    A Farmer's Guide to Vegetable Seed Production


    http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/the_organic_seed_grower/#

    image
    The Organic Seed Grower is a comprehensive manual for the serious vegetable grower who is interested in growing high-quality seeds using organic farming practices. It is written for both serious home seed savers and diversified small-scale farmers who want to learn the necessary steps involved in successfully producing a commercial seed crop organically.

    Detailed profiles for each of the major vegetables provide users with practical, in-depth knowledge about growing, harvesting, and processing seed for a wide range of common and specialty vegetable crops, from Asian greens to zucchini.

    In addition, readers will find extensive and critical information on topics including:

    • The reproductive biology of crop plants • Annual vs. biennial seed crops • Isolation distances needed to ensure varietal purity • Maintaining adequate population size for genetic integrity • Seed crop climates • Seed-borne diseases • Seed cleaning basics • Seed storage for farmers • and more . . .

    This book can serve as a bridge to lead skilled gardeners, who are already saving their own seed, into the idea of growing seed commercially. And for diversified vegetable farmers who are growing a seed crop for sale for the first time, it will provide details on many of the tricks of the trade that are used by professional seed growers. This manual will help the budding seed farmer to become more knowledgeable, efficient, and effective in producing a commercially viable seed crop.

    With the strong demand for certified organic produce, many regional seed companies are increasingly seeking out dedicated seed growers to ensure a reliable source of organically grown seeds for their farmer and gardener customers. This trend represents a great business opportunity for small-scale commercial growers who wish to raise and sell vegetable seeds as a profitable part of their diversified small-farm operation. Written by well-known plant breeder and organic seed expert John Navazio, The Organic Seed Grower is the most up-to-date and useful guide to best practices in this exciting and important field.
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
    edited December 2012
    from Principles of Plant Genetics and Breeding, by George Acquaah 2007
    Principles of organic plant breeding

    The integrity approach to organic agriculture does not imply that breeders cannot manipulate plants, but rather that the tools and techniques used in breeding, propagation, and cultivation of plants should not violate this integrity. Integrity of plants pertains to characters such as their nature, wholeness, species-specific characteristics, and their being in balance with species-specific environments.

    Four levels of plant integrity have been proposed:
    • Integrity of life. This is defined as the state of wholeness or completeness of a living organism that allows it to perform all of its functions in a more or less autonomous fashion. Consequently, crop cultural practices that introduce synthetic chemicals may interfere with this self-regulating capacity of the plant, and hence be incompatible with organic farming.

    • Plant-specific integrity. This is the state of wholeness or completeness of a plant that allows it to perform all of its plant-specific functions. Plants and animals differ in specific ways at the cellular, whole organism, and functional levels. Growing plants in artificial environments (tissue culture, hydroponics) infringes on the plant's ability to perform its natural functions (natural interaction with the soil). Using techniques that reduce the natural reproductive capacity of plants is unacceptable practice in organic breeding. For example, using cytoplasmic male sterility (CMS) without fertility-restorer genes will cause the progeny from CMS hybrids to be sterile.

    • Genotypic integrity. This is defined as the state of wholesomeness or completeness of the species-specific genome. Plant breeding depends on variability for success. Genotypic integrity is not violated as long as the variation is natural in origin. However, genetic engineering technology, which allows the transfer of genes across natural barriers, breaches this integrity principle.

    • Phenotypic integrity. This is defined as the state of wholesomeness or completeness of an individual plant, including its health. This principle is violated when plants are developed (or cultivated) in a manner that makes them unable to maintain themselves or complete their life cycle in an organic production system without chemical protection. Chemical mutagenesis as a means of breeding violates this principle simply because chemicals are used in the process.
    Acceptable organic plant breeding techniques

    In terms of creating variability, techniques that do not violate the integrity of plants include crossing cultivars, hybrid development with fertile F1, testcrosses, backcrosses, and bridge crossing. However, techniques at the cell level (e.g., embryo cultures, somatic variation, ovary culture) and the DNA level (e.g., genetic engineering, protoplast fusion) are not acceptable.

    In terms of methods of selection, mass selection, pedigree selection, and even DNA diagnostics and marker-assisted selection are considered compatible with plant integrity. The diagnostic tools are acceptable because they do not cause genetic modification of plants.
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • bodhiseeds perfecting the nude bomb Posts: 34
    edited December 2012
    i love this thread!

    thanks c-ray.....
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
    edited December 2012
    my pleasure!

    something else to do to intensify the seed vigour, if that is a primary objective, would be to make a buttload of seeds, germinate 10x or 20x or ?x as many seeds as needed and cull everything but the most vigourous plants somewhere along the way.. even further to this would be to only select only the biggest and heaviest seeds, then grow a whack of those and cull cull cull leaving a good number of plants to do a decent selection from the survivors.. if everything goes well and according to plan during the seed making process then we should have mostly dark, stripy, large and fat seed and not many rejects.. that is the goal, zero rejection, 100% perfect seed..

    selecting for vigour might be a good thing to do somewhere along the ibl process, when most mature plants of a particular gen are good to excellent in their desirability and the variation is at least close to acceptable.. could be somewhere in the f4-f7 range..
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
    edited December 2012
    another advanced technique would be to locate a bee hive near each breeding patch and let the bees add their magic into the pollination process.. consideration of course would need to be paid to the proximity of other potential sources of cannabis pollen..

    one might even want to locate their males right by a bee hive.. to bee honest I am not even sure if bees are attracted to staminate (male) flowers, but if they are that would be the pentultimate, to have some ibl males of the same variety surrounding a bee hive and then have a variety of females located within reasonable distance, let the bees sort it all out :chin:
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
    edited December 2012
    in our breeding patches if we continue to work them year by year, making seed every year of the same variety in the same patch,.. if we do soil tests every fall and keep topping up the minerals to keep them at luxury levels before winter, it can have time for the soil to accept and digest it in time for spring.. if we sow a green manure crop after harvest or early spring, we can turn the green manure into the aerobic layer of the soil 2 or more weeks before planting to get some fresh local sourced nutrients to feed the soil.. if we can intersow with appropriate spacing some annual legumes in with our cannabis, it can only help as they will leave nitrogen in their nodules in the soil for the following years crop.. nitrogen comes from space, it is what dna is made from so it is a good idea to use the legume rhyzobium symbiosis to deposit the purest nitrogen available descended from space right into the spot where it is needed..
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • spacemanspaceman Civilized worm Posts: 8,537
    edited June 2014
    One thought that i have is, the difference between the early males and the later males and how they give up there goods....learning the longer flowering males pass high thc genes
    Post edited by spaceman on
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
    edited December 2012
    some interesting pages on electromagnetic seed enhancement from:

    Seed of Knowledge, Stone of Plenty: Understanding the Lost Technology of the Ancient Megalith-Builders
    John A. Burke, Kaj Halberg

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    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
    edited December 2012
    from http://patrickmacmanaway.com/subtle-energy-farm-and-field/
    Subtle Energy Enhancements in Farm and Field

    Abstract

    Subtle Energies in earth's landscape are in every way analogous to those in the human body. Pathways of chi similar to the meridians of chi in our own body are variously termed earth meridians, dragon lines, ley-lines, grid lines, song lines and other appellations in other cultures. It has been suggested that these lines were managed and balanced for significant agricultural advantage by early farming communities, through work with standing stones and other earthworks. Current experiments and experiences are showing that we can use this simple technology - effectively an acupuncture of the earth - to optimize growing conditions for animals and plants, with benefits in length of growing season, frost resistance, disease and drought resistance, rate of germination and development of root structure, and increased yield.

    Awareness and work with earth energies and the Spirit of Place stretches back into the pre-history of all cultures, and much can be learned through myth and story as well as through the study of the world's various traditions of Geomancy (divination of place). Our contemporary understanding of these subtle elemental forces would place them at least in part into the category of bio-electric fields. The interaction of the earth's magnetic field with the solar wind, the lunar cycle and other factors creates patterns of varying geomagnetism and bio-electrical charge that contribute to the qualities of atmosphere and states of health or illness in any given location. Simple techniques familiar to dowsers can bring change to these patterns, with subsequent benefit to people, plants and animals there.

    I am a native Scot and second generation healer and dowser. While there are no conventionally acknowledged training programs or certifications in dowsing, my expertise in this field has been acknowledged by my peers. I am Past-President of the British Society of Dowsers, I also hold a degree in medicine from the University of Edinburgh and have written several books on dowsing. I have consulted internationally on problems of 'sick' buildings and geopathic stress, and optimizing site energies in domestic, commercial and agricultural settings.

    An energetic reclamation of long-unworked land in Vermont

    In the autumn of 2008 I received a telephone call from a gentleman by the name of John Green in Shelburne, Vermont, twenty minutes drive from my home base in New England. (Names have been changed to protect the innocent and guilty.)

    After a career in California in high finance and then a period of study in divinity school, John had decided to bring his attention 'back to the land' to focus on sustainable food production and locally sustainable economic models. He had come back to a family farm in Vermont to make 'sweaty prayers' with his native soil.

    John was inspired by reading of the gardening at Findhorn, in Scotland (Hawken, 1978). In this community on the northern coast of Scotland they have developed methods for cultivating plants that grow to unusual sizes in extraordinary abundance, particularly in consideration of their very short growing season. He wanted my help in connecting him to the spirit of place on his farm and to work with him in establishing energetic balance and nature-spirit co-operation. His challenge was to reclaim land that had not been farmed for forty years. He was particularly interested in designing systems that would work as much as possible with the unseen but green-fingered realms.

    Of a working farm of some 350 acres, all that was left were some dilapidated barns and a 40 acre meadow. The rest of the land had gone back to a regenerating forest of white birch and mixed conifers. So John had a blank canvas to start from.

    The dowsing tasks began with an overall energetic assessment of the open and most proximate areas to vehicles, and to re-establishing water access. We started by dowsing to find the original farm spring for rehabilitation, with careful assessment for the most beneficial earth energy points for John's first greenhouse.

    I found the land to be energetically clean and clear, and the nature spirit consciousness alert, vigorous and eager to participate in John's holistic vision of co-creative endeavor. The dowsing was easy and went well, with a sense of having only to ask in order to receive quick and efficient guidance to maximize his efforts.

    We were guided to site the greenhouse - an eighty foot long industrial poly-tunnel - for optimum solar and earth energy gain, with a strong earth energies power centre in the middle.

    The south end of the structure was under-run by a strong stream of underground water, offering a relatively yin environment that is ideal for mushrooms and tuberous plants. The north side was predominantly yang in nature, with ley energy strong. This offered support for ornamental flowers and vegetables that would give their productive yield above ground level.

    A small blind spring in the centre, where the water and ley-energy intersected, seemed best for anchoring our intention. This location was also excellent for pre-germination seed exposure and early germination location for his many plants.

    My previous experience with other farms and gardens had indicated that as well as general energetic balancing and tuning of landscape energies throughout the growing areas, the optimum energetic exposure of seeds before germination and during the early germinating phase of 7 to 10 days would lead to maximum benefit and efficiency.

    In order to anchor, focus and concentrate the energies in this central power point, whilst still giving John easy access and movement through the greenhouse, we opted for a 'buried stone circle.' This was a ring of one-gallon glass jars filled with vermiculite and sunk just below ground level. -This is an inexpensive, easily obtainable and the more commonly used, highly paramagnetic large granite stones (called 'menhirs' in Cornwall and Brittany).

    The ley and underground water patterns in the outside growing areas were further tuned and stabilized by the insertion of five vertical 'wave guides' in the form of biodynamic towers or substitute standing stones. We opted to use four-inch diameter plastic pipes for these, cut to lengths of megalithic yard multiples. Each has a central copper pipe penetrating into the ground deeper than the plastic surrounding, and extending above the plastic into open air. The space between copper and plastic is filled with vermiculite.

    The cash crops for John's first growing season were to be zinnias for the local florist, and tomatoes, which grow well in Vermont's short but intensely hot summer climate.

    From the start the results looked good. We had 100% germination and the plants were moved out into the meadow from the hot house looking strong and glowing with life force. Neighbors started buying seedlings from John because his plants had root structures more vigorous than they had ever seen before.

    Then, horror of horrors - a tomato blight swept the northeast of America, with devastating effects on all tomato growers in New England. John's plants proved to be the only ones in our area to have significant blight resistance. The University agriculture department reported that his plants alone of all those that they had received from Vermont growers did not totally succumb and die as the blight set in.

    Excited by these and other results, we worked towards further subtle energetic enhancement during growing season 2010, at the end of which John wrote these comments:

    Again this year (2010), the north-east of the USA had blight on tomatoes, not reported in the press - a new variety that is much more tolerant of heat and dry weather. Again, our tomatoes had black marks from the virus but not all, and the crop produced well in greenhouses; but most remarkably, the field crops of cherry tomatoes did better. Their location was mid-field by the pine tree, and a larger planting on the northwest side - fragile, yellow tomatoes from southern climes fared well and red tomatoes from here were without blemish, as the second year of stone circle incubation and naturalization to climate proved to me that disease resistance to blight can be bred and developed using intention and 'enchantment'.

    John also found conventional farmers turning to him in crisis: 'The old timers told me nothing would ever grow, yet the University of Vermont Horticultural Farm, wiped out early from a bad cut-worm invasion, relied on me for root crops, basil and flowers for three weeks, in a one hundred member CSA!" (A Community Supported Agriculture group, increasingly popular in the UK, US and Australia, offers pre-purchase shares to local residents from a farm's year-round harvest. This guarantees the farmers working capital for the season and guarantees the members regular fresh produce at wholesale cost.)

    John's plants also proved to have enhanced frost resistance: 'Where there had been early planting of zinnias, tomatoes and cabbage, under floating row covers, all amazingly survived a devastating frost on May 25th that wiped out many growers who had planted too early.'

    John also speaks to a raw sense of life energy in the growing areas.

    The corn and beans were outstanding, the root crops small, but grew when given room, and did not die, un-watered, untouched, even covered with weeds, which I left to block the intense summer suns... The garden lives on, even now under a canopy of weeds, again drawing criticism and derision - yet I have managed to, or 'we' have managed to grow a large variety of crops under very difficult conditions, without help from water or even biodynamic preps, but there is a strength to the field that says to me: almost in spite of me, these crops have grown.

    Enhanced farming in the UK

    The benefits of optimizing subtle energy flow and balance to all growing areas consistent to the crop were demonstrated in another landscape and another climate. On a subtle-energy enhanced farm in Perthshire (Scotland), the agronomist declared the crop to be the 'best field of carrots in central Scotland' for the third year in a row. Similarly, winter wheat yielded an extra half-ton per acre above the highest regional best for that crop.

    Experimental strips of potatoes treated with a highly intentional essence (similar to the flower essences of Dr. Bach) showed increased crop yields varying between 10% and 30% on test digs, with enhanced skin quality and also enhanced consistency of size.

    This has caught the attention of the consulting agronomy service, who confirmed our findings with their own test digs. They are now interested to conduct further trials with us next year on other farms.

    Other effects of our earth-energies interventions have been noted. Average air temperatures rise gradually during the start of the growing season. Our energetic interventions produce marginally enhanced increases in soil temperature at the very beginning of a growing season. This is clearly one of the most practical and straightforward benefits to our work.

    Further south, in England's Warwickshire, a story was shared with me by much-loved British Society of Dowser's tutor Fay Palmer, who raises 49 acres of race-horse forage. Swapping news and stories over a glass of a favorite malt, she commented that her agronomist reported that her grassland had reached its summer growing temperature a full month before neighboring farms. This echoes the work of pioneering farmer Tabraham, who achieved success with altered soil temperature, growing Soleil d'Or narcissus crops in the Scilly Isles, where the growing season was reduced by six full weeks following subtle energy enhancement.

    Energetic enhancements in landscape and barn facilities to improve health for farm animals

    Another technique, in the form of simple geopathic stress remediation, is also of great benefit to animals enclosed for any length of time in one location.

    In eastern Scotland I had the opportunity to work with a dairy herd stricken with an unusually high rate of mastitis, which had proved resistant to all conventional treatment over the farmer's four-year tenancy. A high-tech facility, the cows lived in their barn almost year round, with a central milking unit available to them.

    Dowsing revealed classic geopathic stress, sourced from four underground streams of very large volume, descending from the local range of mountains and running in parallel under the barns in a pattern that the cows were unable to move away from.

    Simple remedial measures were used, including the permanent insertion of mild steel rods into the ground. These were placed upstream from the barns over the critical edge zones of each stream, with additional earth acupuncture and energetic balancing and clearing of disturbed consciousness and residue patterns both within and surrounding the facility. On a review visit three months later, the mastitis rate had dropped by 60%. This astonishing outcome had me quite delighted.

    In summary

    We are poised at an exciting threshold of extending holistic awareness into our working relationship with land, extending energy healing, balancing and enhancement techniques to systems around us everywhere. Our great hope is that as well as helping to bring the human community into right relationship with place and environment, we will be able to develop techniques to help wean us off our agricultural dependence on petrochemicals, and the expense and side effects that these carry with them.

    A deep exploration of the possibilities for enhancing agricultural vitality and yield through dowsing and subtle energy techniques in local growing conditions seems a very optimistic avenue for us all to explore now. I would encourage all readers to pick up their dowsing rods and walk over to the vegetable plot and the chicken house.

    See what a little elf and dragon whispering can do...

    from http://patrickmacmanaway.com/blog/
    We are experiencing 100% germination rates in seed germination chamber, even from 8 year old tomato seed and time to germination is an average of 2 days, even for Lily seeds, which can take months, even a year, given they want cold then hot then cold, etc. Worth noting.
    As for the greenhouse, interesting to note the 'roots and shoots' effect of the south and north sides of the germination chamber. As the former is female chi and the latter is male, I have segregated the root crops and above ground growing crops appropriately.

    As the distance from the chamber increases, the growth of both roots and shoots increase, after the second week.

    There is some kind of a stunting effect, if the plants are left within a 5 foot radius of the chamber.

    Once plants are removed from the effect of the chamber, they take off, be they roots or shoots.

    Another observation is the effect of heat on the tender crops... the hardier crops show no signs of wilting or heat exhaustion in 120 degree temps (F) without any water at all.

    I happened to miss a watering and the house was bone dry and the doors were not open ..I expected total loss. Temps inside ranged from 120 in the rear to hotter in the front, which was unsheltered from a tree overhead...

    The watermelon were wilted, the tomatoes seemingly fried, brown and lifeless... the cilantro dry and thin as can be...

    Several hours later after water and shade, I put the crops back under lights for the night, near the germination chamber and they have almost fully recovered...

    Seems strange to see them come back to life, but they did.
    Dear Friends.

    Greetings of this Harvest Tide...

    2012 does indeed seem to be a year of insight and new opportunity for creativity -

    I wanted to share a report from this season, although still unfolding, from a small farm client in northern Vermont, this year working with rare varieties of lilies as well as experimenting with rice.

    Hi farm and our work there has appeared in previous blog postings - he constructed a small size 'sacred germination space' on the crossing of two beneficial dragon lines over which we had sited his greenhouse.

    Germination rates and growth over the first two weeks are extraordinarily successful. He has found that after two weeks of the intense germination atmosphere, his plants need to come out into a more gently and less intense energetic environment in order to continue with their structural development.

    It is of great interest to be able to observe closely such subtle energy effects on the living systems around them, ourselves and our own businesses included -

    and to progressively learn to apply these simple technologies with more awareness, understanding and simple benefit.

    upcoming events as ever at www.PatrickMacManaway.com

    Here are the reports -

    - what's possible where you live ???

    Patrick



    Well, I am just back from the farmer's market and the stories one hears of the pressures from pests, rabbits (out of control population surge this year), deer, but most of all from thrips and other bugs...

    Farmers are being absolutely overwhelmed.

    I am growing lily for instance and today at the farmer's market the same question over and over... 'how can you grow lily like these ?'

    They were flawless, and I have had no lily beetle. All lily growers I have spoken too and home growers have stopped growing them because of this little red beetle.

    Along with the beetle, the rabbits and moles and voles are making me the only game in town or around. It was quite nice to be such a celebrity. 'How do you do it ?'

    Also, the florists wonder how my flowers last so much longer in the intense heat we have been having and, as you know, I water 5 acres with a garden hose, meaning I have very drought tolerant plants which usually soak up water - but mine are able to last even in a sandy loamy soil and little or no rainfall for most of May and June.

    The flower stalks, say the florists, have been shorter this year than last, yet even my narcissus, newly-planted, are showing an ability to grow longer, last longer and put up with a ton of pressure from inclement weather and pests.

    I am also seeing in the greenhouse, which is extremely hot this time of year, that flowers are able to withstand temperatures which would kill, according to the texts, 126 degrees F, on a normal basis, as I have no side flaps for my houses and the end-walls are fixed. Granted I do have a fan, but often do not get to watering for a day, and things are bone dry.

    Finally, the ability of the seed germination chamber area to root cuttings, and grow bulbs from scales is proving to be a godsend, as the lily breeding experiments I am conducting with a lily breeder in Norway confirms that things go better with the chamber around, for me at least. And, should we find that the crosses we make are fertile, there will be another chapter to write home about, as I am now making crosses among species which are normally considered to be infertile or very hard to cross, at all.

    The ovary sacs are filling up nicely and pollen sent from Norway is taking with the lily here, so far.

    We will see, but that might be the biggest story coming out of the greenhouse - we won't know for awhile, but I am excited to see such success in pollinating such varying species and hybrid 2N and 4N and even 3N lily flowers.

    Do haploid and tetraploid chromosomes go through some kind of sea change when exposed to earth energies ?

    Does the seed germination chamber force allow for the taking of pollen which normally would not take, under other circumstances ?

    Can fertility be increased, along with the drought-tolerant abilities we see already ?

    Interesting.
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
    edited March 2013
    fecundity = the ability to make seed

    I've been studying how to make seed on plants that are traditionally propagated asexually, such as potatoes, garlic, wasabi, bamboo, etc.. and the general consenus/conclusion is that the more such a plant is induced to bear/produce seed, the greater it's ability to bear/produce seed will be in the future.. making seed every year should enhance the fecundity to the max, esp. when the seed grown in the spring is always from the previous fall.. the rhythm of seed to seed..
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • KaliKali Stoned Free Posts: 369
    edited March 2013
    ^^^
    The reason hierloom seeds reproduction systems are so strong??

    I had random tomato plants popping up in the garden and compost from a previous years hierlom tomatoes planting.
  • monkey5 Member Posts: 72
    edited June 2013
    c-ray, Very nice thread topic! Thank you very much for posting this information for us all here! I will be reading this section over next few days! Way good! monkey5
  • spacemanspaceman Civilized worm Posts: 8,537
    space station check

    http://news.yahoo.com/cherry-tree-space-mystery-baffles-japan-085044593.html

    Tokyo (AFP) - A cosmic mystery is uniting monks and scientists in Japan after a cherry tree grown from a seed that orbited the Earth for eight months bloomed years earlier than expected -- and with very surprising flowers.

    The four-year-old sapling -- grown from a cherry stone that spent time aboard the International Space Station (ISS) -- burst into blossom on April 1, possibly a full six years ahead of Mother Nature's normal schedule.

    Its early blooming baffled Buddhist brothers at the ancient temple in central Japan where the tree is growing.

    "We are amazed to see how fast it has grown," Masahiro Kajita, chief priest at the Ganjoji temple in Gifu, told AFP by telephone.

    "A stone from the original tree had never sprouted before. We are very happy because it will succeed the old tree, which is said to be 1,250 years old."

    The wonder pip was among 265 harvested from the celebrated "Chujo-hime-seigan-zakura" tree, selected as part of a project to gather seeds from different kinds of cherry trees at 14 locations across Japan.

    The stones were sent to the ISS in November 2008 and came back to Earth in July the following year with Japanese astronaut Koichi Wakata, after circling the globe 4,100 times.
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    Some were sent for laboratory tests, but most were ferried back to their places of origin, and a selection were planted at nurseries near the Ganjoji temple.

    By April this year, the "space cherry tree" had grown to around four metres (13 feet) tall, and suddenly produced nine flowers -- each with just five petals, compared with about 30 on flowers of the parent tree.

    It normally takes about 10 years for a cherry tree of the similar variety to bear its first buds.

    The Ganjoji temple sapling is not the only early-flowering space cherry tree.

    Of the 14 locations in which the pits were replanted, blossoms have been spotted at four places.

    Two years ago, a young tree bore 11 flowers in Hokuto, a mountain region 115 kilometres (70 miles) west of Tokyo, around two years after it was planted.
    View gallery
    Japanese astronaut Koichi Wakata holds a pack of cherry …
    Japanese astronaut Koichi Wakata holds a pack of cherry seeds in the International Space Station, Ap '¦

    It was of a variety that normally only comes into flower at the age of eight.

    Cosmic rays

    The seeds were sent to the ISS as part of "an educational and cultural project to let children gather the stones and learn how they grow into trees and live on after returning from space," said Miho Tomioka, a spokeswoman for the project's organiser, Japan Manned Space Systems (JAMSS).

    "We had expected the (Ganjoji) tree to blossom about 10 years after planting, when the children come of age," she added.

    Kaori Tomita-Yokotani, a researcher at the University of Tsukuba who took part in the project, told AFP she was stumped by the extra-terrestrial mystery.

    "We still cannot rule out the possibility that it has been somewhat influenced by its exposure to the space environment," she said.

    Tomita-Yokotani, a plant physiologist, said it was difficult to explain why the temple tree has grown so fast because there was no control group to compare its growth with that of other trees.

    She said cross-pollination with another species could not be ruled out, but a lack of data was hampering an explanation.

    "Of course, there is the possibility that exposure to stronger cosmic rays accelerated the process of sprouting and overall growth," she said.

    "From a scientific point of view, we can only say we don't know why."

    Wakata is back aboard the ISS, where he is in command of the station.

    The astronaut took part in a video link-up on Thursday with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and US Ambassador to Japan Caroline Kennedy, chatting about his daily life hundreds of kilometres above the Earth.
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,823
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