humic acid Vs fulvic acid

DOZEEDOZEE Herb-SmithPosts: 1,610
edited December 2012 in Basics
whats the diffirance ion the garden is one better then the olther?
Post edited by DOZEE on
**DISCLAIMER: I am not currently, nor have I ever grown, smoked, or even seen real marijuana. All of the pictures posted here by me are not my own and I would never think of breaking any law of the United States, no matter how antiquated or stupid.**

Comments

  • a_goodman Posts: 1,313
    edited May 2007
    What is Humic acid?

    Humic acid is that fraction of humic substances that is not soluble in water under acid condition (below pH 2) but soluble at a greater pH. It is the collective name for the acid radical found in humic matter.

    Liquid humic acid is a suspension, based on potassium-humates, which can be applied successfully in many areas of plant production as a plant growth stimulant and soil conditioner. The origin: through extraction the potassium humates are isolated from leanardite and are dissolved in water. This produces an aqueous suspension with a high content of humic acids, potassium, iron and a large number of trace elements ready for uptake by plants.




    The Role of Humic Acids
    Horticultural/Organic growers have recognized the value of regular additions of organic matter to the soil since prehistoric times. However, the chemistry and function of the organic matter has been a subject of controversy since men began their postulating about it in the I8th century. Until the time of Liebig, it was supposed that humus was used directly by plants, but after Liebig, it shows plant growth depends upon inorganic compounds. Many soil scientists hold the view that organic matter is useful for fertility only as it is broken down with the release of its constituent nutrient elements into inorganic forms.

    At the present time most soil scientists hold a more moderate view and at least recognize that humus influences soil fertility through its effect on the water-holding capacity of the soil. Also, since plants have been shown to absorb and translocate the complex organic molecules of systemic insecticides, they can no longer discredit the idea that plants may be able to absorb the soluble forms of humus.



    What can Humic substances/acids do?

    • Aid plant tissues requiring free oxygen for aerobic respiration, and thus provide metabolic energy to all higher plants.

    • Combine with sunlight and photosynthesis to furnish metabolic energy.

    • When used as a dilute solution for foliar spray, cause plants to experience a notable uptake of oxygen, thus increasing plant growth.

    • Not only assist plant respiration, but also increase the production and productivity of microorganisms.

    • Assist plant respiration; they can serve as hydrogen acceptors for various plant root storage tissue.

    • Produce energy involving photosynthesis, enhancing this process which includes the biochemical manufacture of complex organic materials, especially carbohydrates from carbon dioxide, water, trace minerals, and inorganic salts, along with sunlight energy for chlorophyll production.

    • Increase the chlorophyll content in plant leaves when the plant is provided with root nutrient or foliar spray.

    • Directly influence the development of enzymes and the net enzyme synthesis.

    • Contain auxins; auxins are involved in the chelating of iron for the plant, improving growth, health, and nutrient intensity of the plant, especially the development of the root system of the plant.

    What is fulvic acid?
    Fulvic Acid is the most plant-active of the Humic Acid compounds, offering physical, chemical and biological benefits. Natural buffering, chelating and extremely high ion-exchange properties make mineral elements easier for plants to absorb. This results in increased plant vitality, resistance to environmental stress and improved crop quality and yields.



    Benefits of fulvic acids:

    Fulvic acid is especially active in dissolving minerals and metals when solutions are in water. The metallic minerals simply dissolve into ionic form, and disappear into the fulvic structure becoming bio-chemically reactive and mobile. The fulvic acid actually transforms these minerals and metals into elaborate fulvic acid molecular complexes that have vastly different characteristics from their previous metallic mineral form. Fulvic acid is nature's way of “chelating” metallic minerals, turning them into readily absorbable bio-available form. Fulvic acid also has the unique ability to weather and dissolve silica that it comes in contact with.

    Fulvic acid enhances the availability of nutrients and makes them more readily absorbable, allowing minerals to regenerate and prolong time of essential nutrients. It prepares minerals to react with cells and allows minerals to inter-react with one another, breaking them down into the simplest ionic form, chelated by the fulvic acid electrolytes.

    Fulvic acid readily complexes with minerals and metals, making them available to plant roots and easily absorbable through cell walls. It makes minerals such as iron, which are not usually very mobile, easily transported through plant structures. Fulvic acids dissolve and transpose vitamins, coenzymes, auxins, hormones, and natural antibiotics that are generally found throughout the soil, making them available.

    These substances are effective in stimulating even more vigorous and healthy growth, producing certain bacteria, fungi, and actinomyceles in decomposing vegetation in the soil. It has been determined that all known vitamins can be present in healthy soil.

    Plants manufacture many of their own vitamins, yet these from the soil further supplement the plant. Upon ingestion, animals and humans easily absorb these nutrients, due to the fact that they are in the perfect natural plant form as nature intended. Fulvic acid can often transport many times its weight in dissolved mineral elements.

    Fulvic acid complexes have the ability to bio-react with one another, and also inter-react with cells to synthesize or transmute new mineral compounds. The transmutation of vegetal silica and magnesium to form calcium in animal and human bones is a typical example of new synthesis of minerals.

    Fulvic acid has the ability to store complex vitamins in its structure, where they are presented to the cell in combination with complexed minerals. In this perfect, natural condition, they can be catalysed and utilized by the cell. In the absence of adequate trace minerals, vitamins are unable to perform their proper function.

    It is apparent that there is very little that man-made intervention can do to aid or detract from Mother Nature's complexities. We are of an age where profit and abundance may be the foremost motivation for farming of many plants, yet if you take the view that if it is not broke, do not fix it, you can see that everything is there for success in growing, all that is needed is the natural resources, a little faith and allowing the natural elements to do their magic. We can see the results still, as our ancestors did, maybe without the odd sacrifice of a cow, but the future is actually in our past in this respect. There is nothing scientists can do that will make better what is already a perfect blend once all the elements are present.

    peace:kind:
    [CENTER][url=http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=197&yearVar=2004&issueVar=January/February]!!!Be aware of the three headed monster!!!

    General Key to Foliar Symtoms of Mineral Deficiencies in Plants
    also containing Tenative General Key to Foliar Symptoms of Mineral Toxicities in Plants





    Dolphins, eskimos, who cares? It's all a bunch of tree hugging hippie crap.
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  • The CannarchistThe Cannarchist Super Moderator Posts: 3,357
    edited May 2007
    Humic goes best through the roots,fulvic is best on a foliar application.
    Trailer trash hippie redreck
  • a_goodman Posts: 1,313
    edited May 2007
    Many investigators now believe that all dark colored humic substances are part of a system of closely related, but not completely identical, high - molecular - weight polymers. According to this concept, differences between humic acids and fulvic acids, can be explained by variations in molecular weight, numbers of functional groups (carboxyl, phenolic OH) and extent of polymerization.

    The postulated relationships are that carbon and oxygen contents, acidity and degree of polymerization all change systematically with increasing molecular weight.
    The low - molecular - weight fulvic acids have higher oxygen but lower carbon contents than the high - molecular - weight humic acids. Fulvic acids contain more functional groups of an acidic nature, particularly COOH. The total acidities of fulvic acids (900 - 1400 meq/100g) are considerably higher than for humic acids (400 - 870 meq/100g).

    Another important difference is that while the oxygen in fulvic acids can be accounted for largely in known functional groups (COOH, OH, C=O), a high portion of the oxygen in humic acids seems to occur as a structural component of the nucleus.

    Electron microscope observations revealed the humic acids of different soils to have polymeric structure, appearing in form of rings, chains, and clusters. The sizes of their macromolecules can range from 60 - 500 A, what is mainly decided of by the occurring humification process, which also exerts an influence on their spatial structure. Compared to other taxonomic units, the polymers of podsol- earth soils showed to most loose structure.Is apparent that humic substances consist of a heterogeneous mixture of compounds for which no single structural formula will suffice.

    Humic acids are thought to be complex aromatic macromolecules with amino acids, amino sugars, peptides, aliphatic compounds involved in linkages between the aromatic groups. The hypothetical structure for humic acid, contains free and bound phenolic OH groups, quinone structures, nitrogen and oxygen as bridge units and COOH groups variously placed on aromatic rings.
    http://www.ar.wroc.pl/~weber/kwasy2.htm
    rys9.gif
    1 x 1 - 0B
    [CENTER][url=http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=197&yearVar=2004&issueVar=January/February]!!!Be aware of the three headed monster!!!

    General Key to Foliar Symtoms of Mineral Deficiencies in Plants
    also containing Tenative General Key to Foliar Symptoms of Mineral Toxicities in Plants





    Dolphins, eskimos, who cares? It's all a bunch of tree hugging hippie crap.
    [/CENTER]
  • DOZEEDOZEE Herb-Smith Posts: 1,610
    edited June 2007
    badd ass . thanks for the input guys. I bought synergy and ruby fullvic.
    any sugjestions on how i use proporly ?
    I had to change enternet hubs because this site was blocked , so it takes a bit for me to respond...
    **DISCLAIMER: I am not currently, nor have I ever grown, smoked, or even seen real marijuana. All of the pictures posted here by me are not my own and I would never think of breaking any law of the United States, no matter how antiquated or stupid.**
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,993
    edited June 2007
    follow the label recommended dose..like 5ml a gallon per week for the humics to the roots and a spray of fulvic to the leaves...and probably a good idea to only use up to week 2 in flower for maximum flushability
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • DOZEEDOZEE Herb-Smith Posts: 1,610
    edited June 2007
    thanks bro... working at my craft just want to be shure...
    **DISCLAIMER: I am not currently, nor have I ever grown, smoked, or even seen real marijuana. All of the pictures posted here by me are not my own and I would never think of breaking any law of the United States, no matter how antiquated or stupid.**
  • guest Posts: 24,389
    edited November 2015
    So old thread. I don't know much about them, http://www.humicacidcorp.com humic acid is cheaper
    Post edited by c-ray on
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,993
    edited December 2012
    emerson high, 1975... you were in my class!
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
  • c-rayc-ray germinating Posts: 14,993
    http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1994138/fulvic-acids-humic-acids
    One thing you all need to learn is that humic substances have the most amount of misinformation spread about them in the agricultural industry and even more in the hydroponic industry. To answer a couple of questions.

    95% of fulvic products, usually potassium fulvate are not what you think they are. Anyone who talks about a super concentrate is a salesman. Pure fulvic will read ppm the only thing that won't is pure water. Humic acid and fulvic acid are the two main organic acids extracted from humic substances. Humin is another but is of no use in hydroponics as it is completely insoluble. When people talk about solubility of humic and fulvic this is not actually correct. they form what are called colloidal suspensions. Commercially they are extracted from brown coal also called low grade coal or lignite, preferably from a brown coal called leonardite which is more soluble because it is more oxidised and the average oxygen and functional group content is higher. They are also extracted from peat, leonardite is high in humic and low in fulvic generally and peat in comparison has a higher fulvic content and lower humic content. I won't go into the details of extraction and isolation but basically potassium hydroxide is used to get the soluble humic substances into solution and then the humic acid is precipitated to separate it from the soluble fulvic. An array of different additives are used to increase the effiancy of extraction and are usually dependant on the source material of the humic matter.

    I have worked on humic substances for 15 years consulting all over the world inc. Europe, Russia and China. If you want to make your own home made fulvic the easiest way is to buy some peat, and add about 1.5 litres of vinegar to 500g of peat. Mix well and leave for a couple of days or more. Strain out the peat and your done. If you have a highly decomposed compost this will work as well especially if you have added microbes to your compost.
    "One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
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